The curse of the video freelancer, and… how to break it – with Grant Jamison.

Episode Transcription

Den Lennie (1s):
G’day guys! It’s Den here from the How to Scale a Video Business podcast. And this week I have got one of my clients Grant Jamison on the show. Now, Grant’s been a long time listener of the show and we’ve been working together for a couple of years now. And today Grant’s gonna share his journey from being a freelance videographer to some of the journey he went on to become a proper video production company, one that employs people that doesn’t have him being on the tools. And the reason I wanted to get Grant on the show was I wanted him to share his journey and the mindset journey he’s been on and is still on in helping you realize that business is a journey, that there’s a long way to go.

Den Lennie (45s):
You know, you never really feel like you’re done, but I’m certain that you’re gonna find this to be very valuable ’cause Grants just a young guy who’s just achieving an awful lot in his business. But what I love about this interview is he’s very open about the challenges he still has. So I think you’re really gonna enjoy this. Please do like, and subscribe and enjoy this interview. Good day. Grant. I’m really excited to finally get you on the podcast because the journey you’ve been on I think is gonna be really insightful for other videographers who are perhaps frustrated with what they’re doing and want to do more.

Den Lennie (1m 26s):
So first of all, welcome to the show. Thank you for spending some time with us today.

Grant Jamison (1m 31s):
Good day, Den. Thank you for having me. Long time listener, first time caller. I know. I’ve listened to this podcast for so long, so it’s a little bit exciting to be here finally.

Den Lennie (1m 42s):
Yeah, well I mean, I wanted to get you on because I’m really proud of the journey you’ve been on. You are an inspiring young man who is, I think really pushing the boundaries of what is possible for a videographer who wants to transition away from just being a freelance videographer into being a business owner. So I suppose for the sake of logic, why don’t you start at the beginning and tell me, you know, your story at how you got to where you are today.

Grant Jamison (2m 15s):
Yeah, cool. So basically I was working as a production assistant at a production company in Melbourne when I left high school. So I was there for six years, got made redundant, which was cool, you know, I’d learned a lot. So that was, that was fine. And then I got a corporate job as a videographer and I lasted about four months. It was not for me.

Den Lennie (2m 40s):
And then, what do you mean as in like employed in the company? As the videographer in house?

Grant Jamison (2m 44s):
Yeah, yeah. So massive corporate global organization and yeah, at the time probably just wasn’t the right fit and then I decided to go freelance and that was five, four or five years ago. So I’ve been doing that ever since.

Den Lennie (2m 59s):
So when I met you couple, a couple of years ago now, you were Grant Jamison videography and you had some cool clients, but what were some of the challenges you were experiencing as Grant Jamison videography?

Grant Jamison (3m 15s):
Oh, where to start? So many challenges really. So, I mean the, the main thing was I was just spending so much time shooting and editing. I’d get a huge glut of work come in and then nothing like I’d finish that, I’d work crazy hours to get a job done and then I’d have like a week of like, Oh shit, I don’t have any work. So better call off a few people, send out some emails and it’s just like that rollercoaster again and again and again and again. So that was kind of the biggest challenge.

Den Lennie (3m 48s):
And. So when we first met you were, I think running a pretty, a pretty successful freelance video business, but as you mentioned, it was just you, so you are making okay money, but you were doing all the work and you had that kind of feast and that kind of rollercoaster. So everyone’s, I’m sure, who’s watching or listening to this is very familiar with. So what was it that made you want to change? What was it that made you want to kind of like break away from that? What what was the big sort of painpoints?

Grant Jamison (4m 18s):
To be honest, I loved working with my clients and like helping them in their positions and kind of guiding them and educating them on what can work with, with something I’m good at, which is making videos. But I was really tired of editing, especially like I, I’d been doing it, I’ve just been doing it for so long, I just was pretty over it. So that was probably the main thing that made me want to transition into more of a business owner role rather than a freelancer. Yeah, I’d say definitely trying to just get rid of the editing and that means I can focus on doing more of the stuff I love, which is working one on one with my clients producing and I still do a little bit of shooting, although I’m trying to move away from that a bit now as well.

Den Lennie (5m 5s):
So tell me, tell me about that journey. So you realize that you wanna do less editing, you wanna turn your company into business, but you know, one of the things that there seems to be a lack of, or certainly from my perspective what I saw as a gap was there’s an endless supply of videos on how to edit, how to grade content on how to, you know, shoot light. But, but where did you go to start figuring out how to turn your freelance videography business into something that was bigger than you? There was more of a a proper business. What kind of things were you doing to try and figure that out?

Grant Jamison (5m 45s):
Yeah, well look, well before denlennie.com that is, hadn’t heard of it just yet, so yeah,

Den Lennie (5m 51s):
No, but, but I think, I mean I’m curious cuz it is, I think this is a problem that a lot of people suffer from is where do you get that kind of information from?

Grant Jamison (5m 59s):
Yeah, look, I think you sort of start reading general business books like the classics like Revisited and, but still the concepts are still a little bit outside of what I can kind of grasp. But at the time I remember trying to read these business books but still not quite getting it. And you’re right, there’s so much content out there on the best cameras and the best editing, but your clients don’t really care about any of that crap. So it really took me a while to figure out, right, I need someone who can kind of show me the business side of things and I need to change that mindset away to move away from focusing on gear and worrying about that kind of thing and focusing more on working on the business.

Grant Jamison (6m 39s):
And that’s when I started listening to your podcast. So that was definitely a starting point. And then in combination with other mentors as well. So it’s kind of just was finding a few mentors who had already done, had already done it basically And, we already running their own video business and I could kind of learn a lot and ask questions and slowly I realize that hey, I have to change how I think about it and I can’t be constantly working in the business. I’ve really gotta spend a lot more time working on the business and and reaching out and yeah, that’s kind of the gist.

Den Lennie (7m 13s):
It’s funny isn’t it? Cause I mean we’ve all read the ETH and And that that’s a very common book that I think we can relate to, but there’s still a huge gap between understanding what you should be doing and actually doing it. So talk to me about that journey. Cause I know that, you know, we’ve worked together quite closely on the evolution of Grant Jamison videography to live video. Now talk, talk me through the steps that you went through and maybe some of like be, feel free to be really honest about the resistance you felt in some of those processes. Cause I know we’ve had numerous conversations about that journey.

Grant Jamison (7m 51s):
Yeah, so I mean as in transitioning across? Yeah, I mean it’s just taken a long time and to be honest, it’s still a journey for me still trying to make sure that I am doing the right kind of work and not stressing too much about going on shoots or getting into the edit in terms of steps that I took, oh it’s just been like so slow and there’s been so many that I don’t know where to start. But I guess the biggest thing was starting to hire subcontractors was probably where I started. So I was Grant Jamison videography and then I was like, Oh maybe I’ll just try it.

Grant Jamison (8m 32s):
And I had a few editors just helping me out here and there and then, but I was still doing a lot of the editing as well. Like they’d do the bulk of it and then I’d jump in and finish it off. But then once I started the VBA, I started to realize there’s probably a better way of doing it and trying to think more strategically. So planning the year out in advance and trying to hit, you know, strategic goals rather than just being busy for the sake of being busy.

Den Lennie (8m 60s):
And what were the, some of the kinda, I suppose probably the best word to use, emotional challenges like, you know, when when we, when we are changing the way we operate, probably a mindsets a better phrase. What were some of the mindset challenges you experienced when making that transition from you being kind of your name above the door to turning that into a kind of brand? What were some of the challenges you experienced during that process?

Grant Jamison (9m 27s):
Yeah, like a lot of like self doubt in particular. So just wondering if I’m doing the right thing and you know, you get friends and family who kind of, you know, say just like, you know, not in a meaningful way, like not in a mean way but just comments like, you know, are you sure you wanna keep doing this? Are people still paying for a video And? That kind of adds to the self-doubt as well even though it’s coming from a place of care, you know, there’s, it’s kind of a struggle to work through that and, and I guess build some confidence and belief in yourself, which took me quite a while to do. It actually took me a while to get the confidence and get some self-belief to go from Grant J videography where I was doing all myself and transition into more of a brand where I can kind of step back off the tools and trust like my new videographer and trust my contractors and also educate my clients And so that they now know that I’m not necessarily gonna be the one that rocks up and shoots and edits.

Den Lennie (10m 32s):
And that’s something that I think a lot of videographers really struggle with. They’re like, Oh, but the clients want me and if I don’t show up somehow the deliverable quality will go down. So you changed your business and you came up with Lyft video. How did you transition your clients into that new way of working and did you experience any resistance or was it all in, was it all in your head?

Grant Jamison (11m 1s):
A lot of it was in my head. At the end of the day they don’t really care as long as the product looks good and says what it is, does what you said it was gonna do, there was still a bit of just educating and, and the way I would do it is kind of in a jokey way. I’d be like, Look, to be honest, this guy’s better than me. You’re gonna love him. I’ve gotten a bit rusty anyway, so yeah, that was, it’s kind of that jokey like you don’t have to worry. And the first kind of few shoots with one or two clients, I still came on the set with a produced like, as a producer role and I kind of let them see that our shooter videographer was, was crushing it. So, and he, he probably is better than me, but, you know, don’t tell ’em that.

Den Lennie (11m 40s):
Well that’s, but that’s why we hire people, right? We, we wanna hire people that are better than us. And I, I love the fact that you kind of used a bit of humor to transition the clients, but also you, you held their hands on the first couple of shoots, but then once they got felt safe you didn’t need to be there anymore. Which, which is amazing cuz that’s really, you know, a business that relies on you to be at every point of the conversation is not a business. It’s a really badly paid job with a terrible boss because you’re, you’re kind having to do everything. Yeah,

Grant Jamison (12m 14s):
I always joke my boss is And so sorry, you might have to cut that. I don’t know.

Den Lennie (12m 19s):
No, no, that’s cool. We’re we’re completely never gives me time off on this channel. Never gives you time off the pays crap. Yeah,

Grant Jamison (12m 25s):
Yeah.

Den Lennie (12m 26s):
Anyway. And you’re always the last to be paid.

Grant Jamison (12m 28s):
Yeah, hundred percent.

Den Lennie (12m 29s):
But now that you’ve been, how long have you been lift video?

Grant Jamison (12m 33s):
So two years. So I started right at the start of COVID, which was perfect timing. Yeah. Could not have timed that better. But yeah, we started lift start of 2022, I think it was January.

Den Lennie (12m 46s):
And tell me about, you know, how Lift came about and what the original focus of Lift was. Cause I think that’s an interesting story as well.

Grant Jamison (12m 54s):
Yeah, it is. It’s pretty interesting. So essentially we went down the path of nicheing in a space, like a industry specific kind of niche. And, we chose manufacturing and transport. And the reason I chose that was at the time I’d done a little bit of research, probably not enough, really not enough testing in retrospect. And I thought, yep, this is great, let’s give it a go. So we went with lift video production, kind of like a forklift I guess kind of name. Like it kind of felt like it worked in the industrial space because that’s kind of who we wanted to work with and, and do more work with And, that’s where the name came.

Grant Jamison (13m 35s):
And then over two years started to realize that the niche wasn’t really working that well. So yeah, that was a challenge.

Den Lennie (13m 47s):
And, and what were some of the specific, because I think this is really interesting, you know, part of the reason for a backstory you chose this niche was you had a couple of fairly big clients in the manufacturing, transport, logistics space, And. So it seemed to make a lot of sense to keep going down that route. But you’ve, you discovered a particular challenge, didn’t you with the manufacturing space?

Grant Jamison (14m 8s):
So the manufacturing space didn’t really have any marketing per se. Like they had a little bit, but I found it really hard to go in and I guess sell them on a video or see how video could help them when they didn’t even have a marketing manager or they didn’t have any marketing at all. So that was the manufacturing challenge and there were still a few manufacturers that were pretty open to it. But yeah, that was the big challenge there. And then transport, I found that they just didn’t really like me working with their competitors, which is kind of odd. Like I would’ve thought, I guess my expectation was they would’ve, it wouldn’t have bothered them because it’d be like, yeah that’s just live video, they’re experts, they do, he of like transport kind of video, And, that kind of thing.

Grant Jamison (14m 53s):
But no, that was not the case.

Den Lennie (14m 56s):
So that, that presented quite a unique challenge and, and I know that a few months back we had a bit of a one to one and you were quite frustrated that, that you’d spent a lot, a long time going down probably a year going down this path very much with a focus on the marketing and then you re you realize that it wasn’t working. And I feel that what, what’s important to share here and what’s really cool about you coming to do this is that business is really hard and sometimes you have to go down a pathway and it’s the wrong pathway to realize it’s the wrong pathway. But when you get down that rabbit hole, you can feel like you’ve just wasted your time. But what was interesting is during your marketing of Lift, another opportunity came across your path, which was completely outside of your niche.

Den Lennie (15m 42s):
Tell me about that.

Grant Jamison (15m 44s):
Yeah, so basically there was a project that came about in the healthcare space and it was a pretty large project filming a bunch of aged care homes and yeah, completely different to like transport trucks and like manufacturing engineering. And then suddenly we were going in and filming, you know, aged care homes. But I really loved it and I realized that, well it took me a while to realize, but I realized that’s kind of the space that I wanna be in. I found that the marketing coms people in that space, they really already knew why video was so important.

Grant Jamison (16m 27s):
So I wasn’t having to try and sell people on like why you should buy a video. Cause like if you’re not using video in 2022, like I, I’m not sure I could convince you to, Yeah. So that was one and then I just found the work really fulfilling as well. So that was another part of it, but it, it definitely presented a new opportunity and I started to realize that manufacturing and transport, I still can work in that space, but maybe that’s not where my marketing needs to go. And then I thought about the types of people that I was really working with and they’re pretty much all marketing and communications people, And. So I started to think a bit more deeply about, right, how do I market and work and guide more marketing and coms professionals in video cuz that’s what I love doing.

Grant Jamison (17m 11s):
Their, their job videos only one component. So if they’ve got someone who can just tell them what they need to do to get what they want, that makes their life so much easier. And I’ve had some real success almost since just switching immediately something just happened in the way we are working and the way we’re communicating And, that just seems to be working a lot more smoothly, if that makes sense.

Den Lennie (17m 34s):
Yeah. You know, we, we talk a lot about in in the VBA about you wanna get to a know as fast as possible and when it comes to sales and marketing and the mindset around that, sometimes you have to go down a road that, that you believe is the right road. But actually what you’re figuring out is that it’s not the right road. And I don’t think any of that’s ever wasted because you still have a decent number of clients in manufacturing and Yeah, absolutely. And distribution. But, but I think what’s great is that, and And, we, we’ve often had this, this resistance. People talk about the, their fear of a niche, the fear going to narrow because they think that other opportunities won’t, won’t come in.

Den Lennie (18m 14s):
But even though Lift was very squarely focused on manufacturing, distribution, those kind of industries, someone saw your work on LinkedIn and said, Hey do you guys ever do any of this kind of work? And So tell me about that because I think, I think there’s a lot of resistance in the physical videography space against nicheing. Everyone wants to be kind of like all things to all people but, but it, but it doesn’t work as well as nicheing cuz of the focus and you’re focused on one industry opened up a door in a completely different industry, which is now a route that you’re you you’re sort of farming.

Grant Jamison (18m 52s):
Yeah, yeah. For us I think I, I’ve always kind of believed that a niche would work. Like when I look at other successful agencies and companies generally they’ve got a niche that they’re working in And. That’s kind of where I was like, right, we’ll try the industry approach and it just didn’t work for us. I’m sure it has worked for others And, so I’m finding a lot more success with the sort of focusing more on the person as well, particularly in the healthcare kind of space. So, but changing niche, yeah. I guess and using LinkedIn to do that, is that kind of what

Den Lennie (19m 28s):
Yeah, I mean cause I’m just, I’m curious of, you know, how you’ve done it cuz you’ve really, you’ve used LinkedIn very squarely, your approach has been niche on an industry and it wasn’t quite working out the way you hooked it had, but out of that blossomed another industry and it didn’t really take a lot to just go, well we’ll go down this route instead.

Grant Jamison (19m 49s):
No, it was pretty easy to pivot. And I remember we had a cold Den and I was like, oh my goodness, I’ve spent a year doing this thing and it’s not working. What? Oh my god. And then, you know, a couple of weeks of like just changing how I was posting on LinkedIn, connecting with comms and marketing people in health community services kind of space and suddenly it was like kind of like, oh it’s actually not so bad. People don’t really care. No one really remembers that I was the engineering video guy. Everyone’s moved on, I’ve moved on.

Den Lennie (20m 21s):
And I think that’s, that’s the key is that I think it’s creatives we can get very hung up on our identity and feel that, but we are known as this person and, and you hit something very, very key that a grant, which is nobody actually cares about you. Like no, not at all. They don’t care about themselves and they care about the problem they’ve gotta solve. And if you are posting about manufacturing or distribution and they’re in healthcare, they’re probably not even registering it. But as soon as you say healthcare, Marcos helping you do X, Y and Z, they’re like, Oh that’s the guy I need. And I think that’s a really valuable lesson. Cause I remember that having that meeting with you and you were, you were pretty down on yourself, you were pretty kind of like, and, and I think this is what’s important to share is that business is still a rollercoaster, but it’s a, it’s a mindset rollercoaster and And.

Den Lennie (21m 9s):
So things you do hit rock bottom and you feel like, oh God, if I just wasted all this time. But I think you’d agree you never really waste time getting to a no

Grant Jamison (21m 17s):
Because I wish I got there faster though.

Den Lennie (21m 20s):
Exactly. Exactly. Don’t we all, But that’s, that’s business, right? And you, you know, it’s, it’s not an easy ride and if it was more people would do it, it, but it’s not easy. But now you’re in the healthcare space as as a, as a, as a key focus. What have you been doing to to sort of shift your focus, your marketing focus towards that? Because you were pretty, pretty heavily invested in manufacturing distribution and, and now you’ve just kind of changed direction ever so slightly. What have you been doing to to modify your outreach and modify your, your marketing? Yeah,

Grant Jamison (21m 55s):
Do you know what, it actually didn’t take much to modify it. Basically a big part of our, I guess outreach and marketing is through LinkedIn. So it was just a matter of changing, you know, our, our headlines, our profile pay, our profile page, all that kind of thing to our new sort of headline and I guess new branding or not even new branding, just tweaking the copy really to target a new sort of niche nation area. And then in terms of connecting with people, I just started connecting with marketing coms managers in health and community services start to build up a bit of an audience. They’re continually, continuously post content. So I aim to post two to three times a week.

Grant Jamison (22m 38s):
And at the same time while I’m doing that, I’m cold messaging those new connections as well. Yeah. And I think the biggest thing about if you can manage to post and message people at the same time you become kind of almost like a warm lead in a way. Cuz they’ve started to see a post and they’re like, Oh you know, this guy I’ve seen is messaging me And. So I found a little, a bit more I guess of a reception when I try that. I

Den Lennie (23m 5s):
Think LinkedIn is also, it’s a business to business platform. So people are expecting to, to do some business together. And and what kind of things do you think them, you know, how, how are you, Cause I know a lot of people worry about what they’re gonna say to someone cuz they’re, they’re trying to balance connecting without being too salesy and at what point do they start talking about business and work and I think a lot of people would find that quite, quite daunting.

Grant Jamison (23m 28s):
Yeah, I mean, so basically I just, I don’t immediately slap them in the face with a pitch or anything. It just kind of starts off with a connection and I just say, Hey, you’ve come up as a linked on my LinkedIn profile as a suggested connection. We work with comms and marketing managers in insert your space to create video content And, we would love to find out a bit more about what you do. Would it be okay to connect on here? Cheers. So just, just that’s my first kind of message, which I think I got from your training Den. And you know, that’s, that’s all you need. I think that’s, that’s fine. And then generally it’s still what like out maybe like 20 out of a hundred will connect with you.

Grant Jamison (24m 10s):
Yeah, so it’s still a numbers game and then I leave that for a few days, post a bit of content, hopefully they’ve seen some of my content and then I send sort of a follow up if they haven’t replied. So yeah, it’s just a matter of checking in and and consistently connecting and messaging your LinkedIn connections.

Den Lennie (24m 27s):
Yeah. And, and, and it definitely is a numbers game and I think that’s something that, you know, I wish, I wish there was, I wish they’d teach that at film school. Yeah. Because it, it’s, I I think one of the challenges with being a creative is we we’re not very good with rejection. You know? Cause we, we come to every project as someone who wants to help, wants to provide a great service. And, and of course sales involves 80% rejection if not more. Most people aren’t interested in what you’ve got to sell. But I think once you can get beyond that, when you, when you start to ramp up a hundred connections a week, that’s 20 people a week that are now on your radar at the very top of your funnel and are, you know, becoming more familiar with you.

Den Lennie (25m 10s):
And, and you’re absolutely right that the combination of content and connection is, is gold. And I and I think you’ve really, you know, really gone to town with that and made it a habit. How hard was it as a creative to build some of those habits around handling the mindset of this isn’t working and then continuing to reach out to a new market? Was was that hard at all?

Grant Jamison (25m 38s):
Really hard? No. Yeah, it just took a a long time to build up the habit of consistently posting, consistently reaching out and of, of course when I was Grant Jamison videography or when I was kind of still transitioning even, you know, I’d be on a shoot for three days of a week and I’d be editing the other two and I just, I wouldn’t do it that week. So now that I’ve got our videographer, he handles most of that work, I’ve got more time to focus on building those habits around reaching out. Because if you don’t do it for a few weeks, well then it’s kind of like a lag. And then you, you find, you know, in a couple months time you haven’t done any marketing and you’ve got no leads coming through.

Grant Jamison (26m 19s):
But it’s also a, a time game. Like I just had one LinkedIn connection I connected with 18 months ago and we’d been talking, you know, kind of on and off and now finally we’re talking about a pretty big project, you know, so it’s, it’s just a, a time thing as well.

Den Lennie (26m 39s):
I think also I remember early on you commenting in, in the VBA about, I think we actually, we actually kind of laughed with you on the fact you were like, Oh, I don’t think it’s LinkedIn thing’s working very well and I think you’ve, you’ve been doing it for about a week and a half, reached out to maybe 12, maybe 130 people, 140 people. And you were like, Oh, I’m not seriously working, I only got three leads.

Grant Jamison (27m 5s):
Yeah, that’s crazy. I dunno what happened in that first, the first like two weeks, I, I managed to get like three calls and I think two jobs out of it. But I haven’t managed to hit

Den Lennie (27m 16s):
That’s pretty rare.

Grant Jamison (27m 18s):
I think that might have been a bit of a fluke because those ones were like, Hey actually Grant, we do need a video, can you give a call? And I was like, Oh, this is easy. What’s everyone worried about? It wasn’t that easy.

Den Lennie (27m 30s):
I know. Well look mate, we’re running at a time for this episode, but I’d love to get you back to talk a bit more about your LinkedIn strategy. Cause I’ve, I’ve watched you really kind of invest in it and in, not just in terms of financial but but actually in time as well and I think your LinkedIn game is now absolutely on point. So maybe we’ll get you back next week to share a bit more about that.

Grant Jamison (27m 50s):
Sounds good. Thanks Den.