The Freelancers guide to getting hired by agencies with Amy Marshall.

Episode Transcription

Den Lennie (0s):
What’s up guys? This week we are talking to agency producer Amy Marshall, who has a 20-year career working in agencies and ad agencies as a producer, but she’s also the founder of createcrowd.com.au, which is a platform that helps connect creatives to agencies. So, I think you’re gonna find this to be not just a beneficial interview, but also a great resource to help you get in front of people who are likely to hire you. Now, it’s currently just in Australia, but nonetheless, there’s a lot of benefits to checking out this episode.

Welcome to the Video Business Accelerator podcast. Each week we uncover the secrets to creating a wildly successful and scalable video production business with your host, Den Lennie. Discover how the accelerator program is transforming the lives of our members at www.videobusinessaccelerator.com. Enjoy this episode.

Den Lennie (1m 8s):
Well, Amy, I wanted to ask you today about really tapping into your brain of 20 plus years in agency land. As a producer, you must have worked with a fair number of video professionals over the years, video production companies, freelance videographers, and I think that my audience would love to know so many things about working with an agency. But I guess the best place to start is what is the best way to approach an agency if you are a freelance videographer or a filmmaker, or a small video production company that wants to work with an agency? What are some of the do’s and don’ts?

Amy Marshall (1m 50s):
Yep. Well, I will speak from, you know, what works to get my attention. Certainly. And, you know, it’s a great, I feel like it’s a great question because I do think that there’s a lot of reasons people feel nervous about, or how, or am I bugging or, but the reality in my world, you know, as an agency producer was, it was just go, go, go, go, go. So I could get an email and look at it and go, Oh my God, that person’s amazing. And then 15 different things happen and it, and it, and it gets, you know, missed.

Amy Marshall (2m 31s):
So, you know, I’ve had, you know, people word for word say to me, I feel like I’m bugging people, but you know, without hounding, there is no harm in keeping, in touch keeping, you know, keeping, keeping visible, following up, you know, every month or so, an email. It’s not gonna be, I never felt like I was getting hounded. I always felt like if it came through, Oh my God, that person is keen. I remember that. Oh my gosh, I need to remember that. You know, and, and when I got a minute, I put it on a spreadsheet that I remembered for next time. So, you know, and I think, again, like I know you are amazing at mentoring people in, you know, making sure you’re visible, you know, using your socials and using all the avenues that you’ve got to, you know, if you’re not doing that, nobody knows you’re out there.

Amy Marshall (3m 27s):
So use all the tools you have to, you know, to keep in the view of agency producers. So, yeah, I think that that’s, you know, that’s what I appreciated. If somebody, you know, wasn’t every day banging down the door, but, you know, kept it consistent every couple of months, how’s it going? You know, just following up, you know, how are you guys looking? I’m around, you know, and that kept me. I appreciated that. Yeah.

Den Lennie (3m 57s):
So just, just making sure that you are in, in your peripheral vision. So that when you are ready to hire someone, it’s like, ah, you’re, because you’re so busy, you’re likely gonna go to the one person who’s been the most consistent at being reliable. It’s staying in touch.

Amy Marshall (4m 14s):
A hundred percent. Yeah. So I, I mean, I think that that’s something that is, you know, a bit of a, well, certainly from some people who have said to me, I feel like it’s, you know, I touch base with them and I never heard back. And I was like, No, I mean, don’t, please don’t take that. As, you know, there are things that are just moving so fast in production agent, you know, production houses and agencies that, you know, it, it could have gone in and out and, and, you know, a follow up in a month, Hey, sent you an email. Just keep me in mind. Not a problem, in my opinion.

Den Lennie (4m 52s):
But how about LinkedIn as a platform? Do you think that’s a good place to be connecting with producers? If you’re a video production company? Do you think that’s a good place to be connecting with people and, and perhaps, you know, maintaining contact there as well?

Amy Marshall (5m 6s):
Yeah, I do. I mean, I think anything that you can use, you know, as a tool, use it LinkedIn. Yeah. Particularly it’s, you know, being able to, you know, specifically search for businesses and look for people and, and find out who, you know, who the agency producer is at an agency that you wanna, you know, you wanna work at. Yeah, a hundred percent. I, you know, I’m on all the, all the platforms and you know, it’s about building your network. You can’t, you know, all these, all these amazing tools that we do have at our disposal that are free, including create, you know, great ways of just, you know, getting a real feel for who’s out there.

Amy Marshall (5m 52s):
And yeah, I mean, a big network’s a good network in my opinion.

Den Lennie (5m 58s):
Well, I mean, you know, we talked about Create Crowd last week and last week’s episode, and it’s, I guess this is the, the evolution of where this came from because as, as a producer in an agency, you always need amazing people in your virtual Rolodex. Yep. And I think there’s a lot of, I think, I think a lot of creators, and I can only really talk with videographers, are often very introverted. Often they like being behind the camera for a reason. And so the thought of bugging someone and being too pushy, I think is, there’s a conflict. Cause they feel like if I’m too pushy, I wanna feel like a, a sleazy car salesman. But what you, I think you’re saying is there, there is no such thing as long as you are consistent.

Den Lennie (6m 43s):
And what I think you’re saying is absolutely get in touch with people, be persistent. If you don’t hear back, don’t be deterred.

Amy Marshall (6m 50s):
Yeah. I mean, that’s, that would, that would, that would be how it would work for me, for sure. And I guess, you know, that’s not without saying, you know, there’s an art to words and an art to timing. But yeah, I don’t, I hate it when I hear people, you know, had sent one email off and didn’t hear back. And I understand it, like, I absolutely get it. You feel like, Oh God, that’s so awkward now. But really, like, but there’s, you know what? There’s no real reason that anybody on the other end of the email would go, Oh, like, that person emailed me and I’m purposely not gonna write. Like, I just don’t think that’s the reality.

Amy Marshall (7m 32s):
I think, you know, fortunately in the industry and in, you know, the, the creative network and everybody in my experience supports everybody. You know, you do want to build your network and you wanna work with different people. And you know, I would be disappointed if it was ever the case that people are, you know, frustrated by somebody trying to get in touch with you or give it a go.

Den Lennie (8m 1s):
Well, you know, we talked last week, and for anyone who’s listening to this episode or watching it on YouTube or, or LinkedIn or any of the platforms, cause we’re everywhere, is that Amy’s created this platform called Create Crowd, which is an opportunity for you as a creative to register as a business on the platform and be put in front of agencies and anyone else looking for Crohn’s. So I think it really goes to support the fact that you, you mentioned this last week that in an agency world and ad agency world, like, you know, you never know what resource you’re going to need or what specialty you’re going to need. And so the m actually, the more people you have in your role decks virtually the better.

Den Lennie (8m 43s):
So, so anyone listening to this who’s even mildly thinking about doing some agency work, I think what Amy’s saying is get out there and make contact.

Amy Marshall (8m 52s):
Absolutely. Absolutely. I can’t, you know, it’s like, oh God, I hope I get this analogy right. But you know, when you throw something out and then two days later you need that thing, you know how that happens. I can’t tell you how many times I have, you know, somebody’s come through and I’ve gone, That is weird. I don’t think we’re ever gonna need that. And a week later the creatives have come up with an idea that needs that skill and you’re like, Oh my gosh. So, you know, I, yeah, I always welcomed and I would imagine every, you know, agency producer would too, you know, welcomed building their own network, having as many people to call on as possible.

Amy Marshall (9m 34s):
And you never know what’s coming through the door and, and how many people you’ll need. And you know, I love that often, you know, in, you know, certainly in my role I would make a connection with somebody and they were absolutely supportive to say, Look, I’m busy, but I know somebody who would, you know, absolutely help you out. And then you’ve made another connection. So yeah, I think we’re fortunate that we work, you know, in an industry that really does kind of, you know, I mean healthy competition Sure. But you know, generally everybody’s there to help each other out and connect and, you know, make sure that there’s good work and enough work to go around for everyone.

Den Lennie (10m 17s):
What are some of the roles within an agency that, let’s say someone’s sitting on LinkedIn, staring at sales navigator going, Right, I wanna connect with agencies. What kind of roles should they be looking to connect with? Because, you know, is the creative director of an agency the right person to be connecting with if you are a freelance videographer? Or are they, are they just really too busy at a strategic level? What kind of roles should people be looking to, to connect with?

Amy Marshall (10m 45s):
Yeah, I mean it, I think it’s dependent, I think every agency structured maybe slightly differently, but I mean, certainly an agency producer, you know, is a, is a great one. But you know, I also think if there’s certain accounts you’d love to work on, you know, you can, you can find the agency that that’s with and connect with the account director that might be in charge of that. You know, certainly at the agencies that I’ve been at most, you know, it was a really, you know, coherent kind of work environment and most of the roles, you know, touched every kind of stage of a job from brief to, you know, out the door on air.

Amy Marshall (11m 30s):
So, you know, I think that si the size of the agency, you know, may differ from who you’re kind of reaching out to, but you know, if it’s a small, small boutique size, you know, 15 people certainly, you know, a producer or a account director or a creative director, I don’t think, yeah, I think it would be specific to wherever you’re looking, but certainly in my experience, you know, I was involved at a brief level, you know, with account directors. So, and quite often account director would come up to me and say, I crossed paths with the most amazing, you know, videographer last week.

Amy Marshall (12m 10s):
He’s, you know, here’s their number. Cuz yeah, he’s sort of all working together. So yeah, I mean agency producer first and foremost, creatives account directors.

Den Lennie (12m 24s):
Another thing that I’m really curious to understand is a lot of creatives and videographers, you know, we’ll often do end client work as well. Yep. And when they work for an agency is, are there any kind do’s and don’ts in terms of, I guess, I guess I think I think in terms of like what’s acceptable and what’s not acceptable on, on an agency project, let’s say you hire a videographer Yep. To come and work on a project. Have you, have you maybe another way to ask this, have you ever had any, any stories or situations over the last 20 years where you hired someone and something’s happened on set and you’ve had a bit of a like, oh that actually just happened.

Den Lennie (13m 8s):
Like an example would be, I had a story about a guy working in a corporate and rocking up in a mega death t-shirt and torn jeans or, or you know, someone working on a Nike advert showing up in Adidas. Like, do you have any, any, any situations you can think of over the years where there’s been a real kind of like foot and mouth situation and you think, oh my God, I can’t believe that happened to kinda give maybe some of the younger filmmakers some, some guidelines on how to show up and be a very good asset to an agency?

Amy Marshall (13m 42s):
Well, I mean, it’s not maybe quite down that line, but one thing I really, really pushed and, you know, appreciated when freelancers and, and certainly the younger ones did is I, I think there’s a tendency to want to give a really good deal, you know, like lower your rates or, you know, do a, to to work with an agency that you know you wanna work with. And I’m not saying that’s always a bad idea if, if you see an opportunity in it. Absolutely. You know, but I think I always found it best and I really encouraged people to never start off a job feeling like you’ve done anyone a favor.

Amy Marshall (14m 32s):
Because I feel like that gives, it kicks off with the wrong kind of dynamic. So, you know, then if there are problems, one person always feels like they’ve already kind of given more than they should have to begin with. And then, you know, and then this has has come up. So, you know, I guess that’s one piece of advice as an agency producer that I think would, is maybe a little bit, you know, just be really clear and never kick off a job feeling like you’re, you know, a any kind of like resentment that you’ve, you know, you’ve done a big favor for whoever you’re working for.

Amy Marshall (15m 14s):
And then, you know, clear communication is, is absolutely necessary. You know, I think I love processes so, you know, being buttoned down with kind of, this is how I work, you know, I’ll invoice you through this system or that just takes, you know, a lot of, you know, fluff away when you’re kind of busy and you just wanna know, you know, cool, send me this, I’ll get a pay. You know that. And I think, yeah, you know, I, I wish I had a story like, because they’re funny stories, but I actually don’t, I can’t think of one off the top of my head where we had a, you know, awkward moment with anyone that,

Den Lennie (15m 59s):
What I love about what you’ve shared is that what you’re actually saying is don’t go in and literally virtually drop your trousers and give the cheapest rate to try and work with an agency. You can actually go in with your rates and they’ll more than likely be respected. Cuz cuz the agency isn’t just looking for the cheapest price, they’re looking for the right fit.

Amy Marshall (16m 20s):
Yes. And it, and, and, and I think, yeah, you know, if you, that it kicks off a job and you know, if you’re already kind of having that kind of like, I’m doing you a big favor and I feel like I’m not getting, you know, what I’m worth, that does no favors for anyone. Cuz I, you know, that that actually caused more headaches for me sometimes because, you know, something would come up and you know, it, it would, you know, when you’re kind of starting to understand you talking to somebody who is feeling like they’re already a bit, you know, giving more than they should, I always appreciated when both parties are kicking off going, I’m excited about this project, you know, I feel like I’m getting what I’m worth.

Amy Marshall (17m 6s):
It’s worth me doing it. And, you know, that makes for just a better, better creative experience around. So yeah,

Den Lennie (17m 13s):
I think that will be a very surprising thing for this audience to hear. I think there’s a, a genuine fear that if you’re gonna work for a big agency, the only thing they’re interested in is getting you for the cheapest possible price. So that’s really, it’s really great to hear that because yeah, I think that will really demystify a preconceived notion that exists within the videography industry.

Amy Marshall (17m 38s):
Yeah. Well,

Den Lennie (17m 40s):
I also love the fact that you, sorry, but I also love the fact that you, you say you want people to be organized, like, you know, be very clear in what the process is. Don’t be apologetic for, you know, for showing up as a professional.

Amy Marshall (17m 56s):
Absolutely. Yeah. I mean there are all the things, there’s, I know that, like, I feel like I’ve said it a couple of times, but it is, it is a hundred percent true. There is so much going on, you know, multiple deadlines, a lot happening. You know, I loved and appreciated when somebody came in were, you know, were clear with, you know, their rates clear with their own processes, communicated that and came in and you know, I guess, it’s sometimes it’s tough to come into an agency and you sort of, you know, it can be a really intimidating environment, and I see that, but you know, I think if you just come in and approach it as in you’re, you’ve agreed and you’re there to do the job that they’ve given you, you’ll be absolutely, you know, appreciated probably, you know, more so than you think.

Den Lennie (18m 54s):
Yeah, I love that. I think there’s a gen a general consensus that agencies are just there to kind of, you know, ring a freelancer dry and, and chuck a load of money on the invoice on top. But it sounds like the opposite is true, that you actually just want to work with really support supportive, creative personnel who bring a lot of value to the job. And what you’re saying as a producer, you would rather they were being paid their full rates or they show up to the job a hundred percent firing, saying, we can’t wait to get going on this.

Amy Marshall (19m 29s):
Absolutely. Like certainly in my experience, certainly what, you know, I think any creative person does the work they do because you all feel strongly about a brilliant creative result. So that only happens if, you know, you’ve got people that are, you know, you know, making that happen for all the reasons they’re there with their skills. So, you know, I i I do think that yeah, it’s, it’s really important. It’s a lot more exciting too, and it’s a lot more fun. Like how much more fun is a job when everyone leaps into it on the, you know, on the same playing field and feeling like this, this is something I’m looking forward to, not something I feel like I’ve said yes to, but I’ve not gonna get the money I, you know, want and I, I don’t wanna work with that person, you know, I wanna work with a person that’s like, yes, let’s go, let’s work together on this.

Den Lennie (20m 26s):
Yeah, I love that. So as we sort of wrap this up, what, what are some maybe top tips for young videographers or young production companies who are looking to break into the agency world? I guess the first thing you should do is go and sign up for Create Crowd. Let’s, let’s not shy away from the fact that that is an incredible resource, but, you know, and you’ve worked for 20 plus years in ad agency probably across a wide variety of different subjects. What, what are two or three things you would share with, with a young videographer that that could help them, you know, be, be a better propo proposition for, for, for working with?

Amy Marshall (21m 11s):
Yeah, I mean, absolute keenness and enthusiasm. You know, obviously that’s essential. I love being around that just lifts a, you know, so there’s not too many people that aren’t in the industry that aren’t passionate about or enthusiastic. So that hopefully is a given for, for most people. But, you know, there’s also, you know, a side that can be a little bit tough for creatives that are coming into, you know, an agency. You do have to remember that, you know, there is an element of, unfortunately, you can’t always create, you know, flex your creative muscles, you know, as far as you’d like to in an agency because you know, you will be working under, you know, creative directors and, and creatives that have worked on accounts for a long time and, and really do know kind of what they want.

Amy Marshall (22m 8s):
So, you know, I opinions and suggestions and enthusiasm. Absolutely. You know, I think, you know, like a lot of commercial situations, you know, you be prepared to sort of take direction and you know, try to understand, you know, where and why things are coming from and, you know, clarity, communication, clarity, enthusiasm, and you know, a willingness to be open minded to get the job done, even if it not, it might not be how you would do it if you’re on your own.

Den Lennie (22m 46s):
Nice. I love that. That’s really good advice. I remember talking to a podcast guest a couple years ago and he said, Being too creative might hurt you in agency world because you’re working as part of a bigger campaign, which might be part of a multi-year campaign of which video might only be one component part. And I learned that a long time ago. I’ve done a lot of work for Sony and I’ve launched a lot of cameras for Sony, and we’d often get a lot of negative feedback, I suppose you would call it trolling now from people going, Well, why did they get him to do it and why did they do it like that? This camera’s capable of so much more.

Den Lennie (23m 26s):
But what no one would understand is that I was dealing with senior management in Japan who were trying to make a launch film that would be understood by everyone around the globe, but wouldn’t more importantly wouldn’t offend any of like 15 cultures they had to consider. And it often made for a bit more of a vanilla piece of creativity that, you know, was being run by essentially the engineers who built the camera. But I always, I always used to maintain the fact that, you know, if you’re paying then I’ll do as you ask me to. And I think that’s a really good way to remind yourself that, that not every project you’re on demands, you know, Stevens Spielberg creativity.

Amy Marshall (24m 11s):
Yeah. Oh yeah. And I think, you know, yeah, as, as I say, it’s absolutely exciting and, and encourage that at that creative thinking. But I guess, you know, it would be amazing if we all had our own budgets to creatively make exactly what we want, how we want, but that’s not the case.

Den Lennie (24m 36s):
Well, Amy, thank you. It’s been so kind of you to share your insights from, from agency producer Land, some really incredible tips there I think that really benefit this audience. And we’ll be sure to, if anyone listening to it or watching this, please go over to createcrowd.com au or is it.com.

Amy Marshall (24m 56s):
Dot com dot au

Den Lennie (24m 58s):
Ye dot.com dot au, createcrowd.com.au, sign up, get onto that platform because there is really no downside, and I know that Amy has agencies signing up on a weekly basis, and if you get signed up and you get featured in that newsletter, you are literally accelerating the ability for you to be noticed by a potential employer.

Amy Marshall (25m 22s):
Yeah, absolutely. Thank you, thank you for mentioning that we, and, and we’ve got the app version of Create Crowd coming out very soon, so I’m super excited about that as well. So hopefully that will make for a really easy user experience for, you know, agencies and production houses looking,

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