How embracing the word “NO” can save your business.

Episode Transcription

Ryan Koral (1s):
Ladies and gentlemen.

Den Lennie (2s):
Good day, guys! That his Ryan Koral sneaking it in the beginning of this episode of the How to Scale a Video Business podcast. I love that this is like, this is like unedited, right? So we are here at episode number 176 and well Ryan just said to me, it was Damn. Are you trying to have a catch up with me? I’m like, yes, I actually am. I’m like you in Ben Amos, man. I was way behind for such a long time that it’s time to get stuck in and chase you guys tails. Anyway guys, this week, we have the wonderful and very handsome Ryan Koral from Tell Studios over in Detroit, Michigan to share some knowledge bombs with You on this week’s episode.

Den Lennie (46s):
Well, Mr. Koral, it’s a pleasure to have you here. Not at least of all, because if you are alive and well, I think we have rescheduled this podcast. Now three times, my, my episode did for you, you a inconveniently had COVID, which is very, very unfortunate. And then I think last week we tried to do this and you were like, man, I’ve just got my COVID job and I’m wrecked. So yeah, just, just thank you and so great to have you here alive and well.

Ryan Koral (1m 15s):
I’m super glad to be here. I think it’s amazing that I interrupted the intro. That was

Den Lennie (1m 19s):
Just so I think that’s what a class at a classy plus, you know, Damn, this competition of mine. Jesus, they are there. They are brutal. Let me shine. Check me. You have the biggest podcast in the world on this topic. Just you are a number one. Okay. I’m happy being number three or four. I bow to your greatness.

Ryan Koral (1m 41s):
Oh my gosh. That’s amazing.

Den Lennie (1m 43s):
Wow. Wow.

Ryan Koral (1m 43s):
Super glad to be here.

Den Lennie (1m 44s):
I know. Absolutely. Well, look let’s, let’s say for anyone who doesn’t know who you are, because that would seem insame. Who is Ryan Koral and what is Tell Studios?

Ryan Koral (1m 57s):
Yes. Ryan Koral is the man behind the Tell Studios. Yeah, I started, I started In Video 17 years ago and a, you know, Today I’ve got a team we’ve got a really cool studio in the Metro Detroit area that only one of our employees currently work at and has for the last last year or so. Yeah. And we serve, you know, our last 17 years we’ve done every single project, probably imaginable a bit today. The majority of our work, we work with corporations. And the thing that we love to do is to really get to the heart and soul of who our brand is and, and tell those stories are, those are just as exciting.

Ryan Koral (2m 43s):
And I love people and I love their stories. And so to be able to, you know, create videos around that is super fun and inspiring. And I love the business side of what we do. So five years ago, I started a company with my friend, Matt Davis called Studios Sherpas in order to help serve the videographers. The video studio to studio owners are really good at shooting and editing, telling stories, but when it comes to running a business don’t care, aren’t good. Don’t know. You know all of that stuff. That’s the stuff that I just have worked on for a super long time.

Ryan Koral (3m 25s):
Refined, loved reading books on business, love talking about it. So we created this brand to educate a, we launched the podcast in five years ago, which is why we have so many more episodes. They know I’m about to go too late to a week, just so you know.

Den Lennie (3m 40s):
So as soon as we got to get a handle on it, become number one in volumes, just sheer volume and brute force.

Ryan Koral (3m 46s):
That’s right. That’s all right. That’s good. You know, that’s the way it should be, but yeah, it’s, it has been, we’ve had amazing clients over the last 17 years. We’ve had amazing opportunities. I’d been to places all over the world. I have yet to be a in Australia, but I plan on at some point. Yeah.

Den Lennie (4m 2s):
Well, I mean, give it, given that Ben Amos lives 10 minutes down the road, it’s about bloody time.

Ryan Koral (4m 8s):
Just need to just have a, have a get together

Den Lennie (4m 11s):
And finally we were closed. Just, no, I mean, thank you for your interest in Australia, but we’ve kind of closed because we decided we didn’t want to bother with COVID. Yeah,

Ryan Koral (4m 18s):
Yeah. And then, and they brought, look at my record sheet and be like, yeah, yeah, yeah,

Den Lennie (4m 23s):
Ben and I may, I have to have a word with the government, but we’ll, we’ll we’ll work out eventually. Yeah.

Ryan Koral (4m 29s):
Okay. Yeah. Just keep me posted. Yeah. But, but over the last five years, working with a videographer is still makers, studio Owners that, that work has really made me come alive. It’s been which, and I’m assuming, you know, a similar story for you yeah. To be able to help other people in their business, in this business it’s incredibly fulfilling. And when I’m able to help people build something that’s sustainable, where they can charge more and not feel guilty for trying to build a profitable business. Yeah. That’s a sort of just an incredible gift to be able to, to serve in that way.

Den Lennie (5m 9s):
I agree. Yeah. I read that as an interesting to me a lot of the day from Sam ovens and it said those who can’t teach and I was like, Oh, I just love Sam. Oven’s hauled direct approach. And I don’t think anyone’s ever said that to me actually. And probably not to you, but I, I love the his e-mail was basically saying those who can’t teach and its quite common that you, no, if you go to the local college, the person teaching the film course is probably not, not working as a filmmaker. And, but, and those that can and have, and I’ve done it for a very long time in kind of like, I wouldn’t say you’re over it, but you know, there’s, there’s nothing to prove then can I can teach and share it. And, and I agree with you there that the real reward that I get every single day going to work is is when I hear clients tell me, Oh, they won this huge contract or the art of the rates, or they got the client to come back and, and increase a budget.

Den Lennie (6m 2s):
And that to me is, is the joy. And I think one of the things that, that I have connected with you and Ben over as that, we all, we are all technically, well, you can say, technically we all run businesses that take two, to some degree you compete with each other. But the thing that I always promote and that, that you and I and Ben have always promoted is like, there’s just, there’s just so much opportunity out there. And there’s so many people to help. If, if we can help more people walking together, then that is the kind of purpose and mission of mine. And I also wanted to, to really encourage Video Studios to work together, ’cause there is such an enormous amount of work. And this is kind of takes me back to the first time we ever met.

Den Lennie (6m 44s):
I think it was an Weaver in Florida in Mount was at 29 of 2010. And we’ve there’s this organization that collaborates well is wedding guys. So did, did you start in weddings as, is that how you, you came to be there?

Ryan Koral (6m 59s):
Yeah, I mean, I started in like just doing it. I was working at a college doing a video for them. I left the college to do video full time. So they were contracted me to church. We are going to have this incredible production department. And so they were, they needed extra help. So they are hiring me and it was just doing a little bit of everything in between for the first six months. And then I had a photographer friend who said, Hey, I’m shooting this wedding this weekend. They needed a video, they’ve got 500 bucks. Are you interested? And I was like, ah, sure. I have no idea how to do that, but I’ll do it. And I loved it. And then a couple of days at the family loved it. And I said, I just felt like my mission was, I could make these a beautiful pieces too, to capture this amazing memory for these families and to create an heirloom.

Ryan Koral (7m 43s):
And so for the next seven or eight years, that’s really how we built out. Is that a champagne bottle? What are you drinking?

Den Lennie (7m 49s):
And it’s actually a wine, it’s a good thing, a wine bottle, but at whole foods like 750 milliliters of water. So yeah. Okay. I can pretend it this way. And just getting on the wine at 8:19 on the Friday morning here in Australia this morning, this would make any sense whatsoever. I have a, a, a gift from my 50th birthday, one of my very good friends Judi, and she runs a gifting company is giving us this amazing hamper. And then it was this kind of beautiful kind of bronze at a wine bottle killer, which is one of those double skin’s. So you can put out an entire model of wine and keeping it cool. And the heart of Australian son. So sorry. Can I just don’t want to get painted picture for the, for the listeners.

Ryan Koral (8m 34s):
They got it. That’s just like amazing. So yes, for the first bunch of years, like weddings were our primary focus, which is how I ended up at that conference in the funny thing that kind of like what you were talking about competition and this whole thing, I went to that conference and there were, you know, so many different speakers and presentations. And if they’re from all different companies, all different, you know, guys and gals competitors, right in I’m taking notes, furiously w after each one. And that’s the beauty in having a mindset of abundance is that there are so much, there’s so much business. There are so much to learn.

Ryan Koral (9m 14s):
We’re better together, right? This idea of community versus a competition is like, it’s just, that really makes my heart come alive. And, and granted, there might be times where somebody is making a choice, like, Hey, I’ve got a buy Den’s program or Ben’s or Ryan’s. Cause I’m only got so much money in it, but, but that’s fine because whoever resonates the most, whoever they connect with the, the most whoever, or, you know, everybody’s programs a little bit different than everybody’s style and everybody’s experience. And so we’re not, I’m not for everybody and that’s fine. That’s okay. And then when it comes to like running your production company, it’s the same thing. Like you’re not a fit for everybody.

Ryan Koral (9m 56s):
So like be okay with that, when it comes down to like your competing on price or like, you know, they’re hiring somebody else because their quality’s better like that. Then its like time to look at, you know, how you’re doing business. Not like I’m going to undercut the competition, but like what, what am I doing this? You know, as good as I can. Is there anything that I can learn from, you know, not getting hired from that project and ask that clients that didn’t hire you like, Hey, is there something I could have done? Like what an, you know, don’t blame the other company and don’t be mad, like use those opportunities to grow. And, and then probably my favorite thing when I started my video company, one of the very first things, actually it was when I got this opportunity to shoot this wedding, I started Googling as she was Google around back then.

Ryan Koral (10m 41s):
I don’t remember, but I started looking up online like, you know, what does a wedding Video? And, and then I found this association in the Metro Detroit area called the Michigan independent Video association. And I went to a meeting and I met 20 other guys that were, you know, seasoned wedding event. Video guys became friends with a lot of these guys, took a lot of these guys out for lunch and coffee and was just asking them every question I can think of it. Cause I’d never shot a wedding. I didn’t know what to charge. I didn’t know. You know, I didn’t know anything. And there were a good amount of these guys that wanted to help me. There were certainly some guys that were a little afraid who is the new kid on the block and you know, he’s gonna start stealing all of our clients and that’s not, I, I was just trying to, you know, build community, learn, grow, or whatever I can do.

Ryan Koral (11m 31s):
But here’s the beautiful thing is I got so much work from other videographer’s because you know, when your shooting weddings, you are only available for one day. And so the most popular days get booked up. Well then what do you wanna do if you’re sick, if you’re really, if you really care about serving your clients, you’re going to refer them to somebody who you like. And so to have two, three, four, five, six, seven people companies that you can refer to the client that you can’t film on their wedding, that speaks volumes. And so people come already pre-sold. And so I booked so many jobs. I was able to pass so much work off too, you know, to these same guys who were passing work to me, I made so much money from people in this network, a video people.

Ryan Koral (12m 15s):
And that was so that was just kind of ingrained in me from the very beginning. So, you know, not to say that there haven’t been seasons where I’ve been a little bit more fear based and like, Oh man, like, you know, cashflow is low bank count. You know, there’s not as much money as I want in there. So like maybe I did, you know, or do some times like bite scratch claw a little bit more than I should. But overall, you know, my heartbeat is really like, I wanna, I want to show up each day open-handed and ready to serve and be okay with not booking to every job that comes my way. And if I can help somebody by passing them along to somebody else that might be a better fit. That’s the mindset, that’s the attitude that, that I want to bring.

Den Lennie (12m 56s):
Well, you know, you and I are both a real kind of lifelong learners and, and loved everything to do with the online marketing direct response. And some of the guests you’ve had on your show who have been I’ve thoroughly enjoyed the episode. I’d been like furiously making notes. So thanks for doing the work because that will take me a lot of work. But I think the thing that always sticks in my mind is, is the importance of staying in your lane. And, and I, I, I’m known for being on the, kind of the, the niche can of the hammer with the niche, just like just go niche or niche niche. And they were like, Oh, I don’t wanna go next. Cause I was scared. And, and yet when you evaluate your business, there’s probably 80% of your business comes from one sector or one style or a one approach.

Den Lennie (13m 38s):
And, and if you stick in your lane, it’s, it’s stupidly easy to make a really successful business. However, and I say this to my clients all the time is we are creators. And then the curse of the creative brain is that we always think we should be reinventing and making stuff knew what the business needs is actual consistency and repeatable somewhat one day and process. So tell me about your journey from, from wedding videographer, two running a highly successful that he needs to do. You’re doing, you know, a sizable budgets with some pretty kind of top down

Ryan Koral (14m 15s):
In clients’. Well, you know, it, as a, as my family grew, when, when I first started, I left the job that I was making $22,000 a year. I was, I mean, it was not very much money out of college, but at the same time, my wife and I were newly married. We didn’t have any debt. We owned our cars, we lived in government subsidized housing. So I left this job and I needed to replace an income that was the equivalent of $11 an hour. People were like, Oh man, you started your own business. Wow. What a risky thing to do? It I’m like $11 an hour. And I’m like, seriously, I would go to a McDonald’s and make a million dollars an hour. Okay. So it wasn’t that big of a deal, but you know, as you know, my first wedding, I charge $500 for, I thought that was like a million dollars.

Ryan Koral (14m 55s):
And then, you know, fast forward a bunch of years and we’re booking weddings for like $25,000. And it’s like, Holy cow, like, are you serious? Oh, what, what happened? But as long as our expertise group or, you know, I’m in investing in education, in a gear in like all of this stuff in plus my years of experience. And, and that, that just became to me like more and more valuable. And I was like, man, we need to be able to charge more. And so we kept charging more, but then we got to a point a, especially here in Michigan, six months out of the year, like that’s when people get married typically, or at least that’s when those or the weddings that you want a film, cause they are usually outside or whatever it is not snowing all of these things.

Ryan Koral (15m 39s):
And there is six months out of the year that we weren’t really doing much except for marketing or advertising, you know, learning. And there was just an opera, a huge opportunity to, to make more money. And I was, I was, I think, early on, I was very hesitant to make a lot of money. Like I was just like, ah, money, you know, too much of money is probably not a good thing. And if you’re making money, it would be a breaking your braking away from the arts. Right? Yes. And, and so I had this internal battle of like, I had this desire to, to grow this thing. ’cause I thought I couldn’t actually do a lot of good with more money, but I was afraid to like tell people that I was afraid to, to charge more because you know, it was just afraid of what people are going to think.

Ryan Koral (16m 20s):
So I’ve kind of, you know, secretly subtly was like increasing our prices, but we just got to a point in 2012, 2011, 2012, where we just had our second kid, we lived in a pretty small bungalow and, and we were just like, man, they are like, we have bigger dreams for our family in what we want out of life. And I’m paying one of my employees a little bit more than I’m paying myself. And this is just, isn’t like super sustainable. So in that moment was I had to make a decision, like, did I want to continue on this path of being this super creative director, a filmmaker, just the best Video guy in the world, or did I want to really figure out how to run a business and how to be more profitable and be more efficient and maybe hire people that would shoot or hire people that would edit.

Ryan Koral (17m 8s):
And I said, you know what? That’s, that’s more sustainable if I get hurt. And I I’ve focused all of my attention on being out in the field shooting, what if I can shoot? So then, you know, I was like, okay, I need to find something that can shoot. And then I’m like, man editing that takes so much in my time. I love doing it, but that takes so much in my time. And what if I was like selling a little bit more, instead of doing all this editing, you’ll be able to sell more jobs and make more money and I could pay for a shooter and I could pay for an editor. So all of those things got me really excited to say, I could build a business that doesn’t require me to do the production in the, in the main parts of the business. And that’s when I that’s, that’s why when we shifted, we started doing corporate storytelling and really connecting with these much bigger organizations, much bigger budgets.

Ryan Koral (17m 55s):
You know, we were back then in five or $10,000 for a wedding are first, really big job that we got when we rebranded. Well, we added a, a, another brand was a twenty-five thousand dollar opportunity with a university of Michigan, the, the school of business. And I was like, Oh my gosh, we, we just booked this. That’s like five times bigger than our average wedding and the amount of work don’t tell them this, but the amount of work that had to go into that project, plus it was Monday through Friday nine to five, like, Hey, we’re gonna shoot at the university, Oh, come at 10:00 AM and make sure you guys are leaving by three because of traffic and were like, Oh my God, this is amazing. And just felt so cushy. And, but that’s just the way that the world of business works a much different than, Hey, our weddings on Saturday.

Ryan Koral (18m 42s):
So I’ll be here at 10:00 AM and stick around till 12:00 AM. Right. It’s just like a bunch of different things

Den Lennie (18m 49s):
Between, you know, business to consumer and business to business because consumers are spending their own money. Businesses are spending the business money and saw the bigger the business, the, you know, that 25, 30, $40,000 job for a business making 200 million a year is like, eh, eh, you know, they didn’t have the need to get a second signature on it. So I think that’s a really valid point. So, and, and presumably you still love me at university of Michigan as a clien iclientn some form?

Ryan Koral (19m 21s):
What did you say, do we still have them as a client’s?

Den Lennie (19m 26s):
Yeah. So yeah, the lifetime value of that client is probably insane.

Ryan Koral (19m 29s):
Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. Like hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars. I mean, it’s in it. And the, the crazy thing is like, we’ve only worked with like a handful of there. I think they have like 26 colleges we’ve only worked with, like, I think three of the colleges and a couple of different departments like that aren’t any of the college it’s getting in with a guy with a major university is like, that could be our whole business is just, you know, seeking out work there, but, you know, yeah. We haven’t, we, you know, we were just doing all sorts of other stuff to you.

Den Lennie (20m 2s):
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And I think, you know, I always, I always say that the clients that you want to know, what are the ones that are, that, that just call you a more Belle or yourself on and go, Hey, we got a job it’s 20 grand. Right. We can, you know, yeah. It’s that kind of highest leverage, no Eugene Schwartz as five levels of customer awareness. It’s like most aware, Hey Ryan, I’ve got this job. Here’s the budget. If its not enough, let me know. And I think we can, you know, one of the things that I admire about what you do with, with everything that you work with is if you’re in the same mission is myself and bam, which was to help business owners to have more confidence, to focus on the right opportunities and, and, and, and it’s all care to say no to the wrong opportunities.

Den Lennie (20m 44s):
Yeah. So how did you, how did you, how did you find that process going from that kind of more perhaps freelancer? So we, we all have scarcity and abundance in his right eye, but how did you manage to, to note the scarcity and embrace the abundance?

Ryan Koral (21m 5s):
One of, I’m friends with super smart people and my buddy Jim is really amazing sales person, business development guy. And one of them, one of the things that he had said that long ago, to me, he’s like, Hey, do you want to get a note when you’re talking to a potential client, you want to get to know as soon as possible. And I’m like, no, as soon as, why would I want to get a no, like I’ve, you know, if I’m talking to somebody, I want to get it. Yes. Like that’s the whole thing. And he’s like, he was like, but not everybody is a good fit. And the sooner, the sooner you can actually get off the call and talk to somebody who is a good fit or has the budget, or you know, is a good culture fit or any of that stuff like that. You want to talk to you. So if in the first two minutes you get a sense or they get a sense that you’re not a good fit and it’s a no awesome, like let’s identify that as soon as possible.

Ryan Koral (21m 53s):
So, you know, I think the process was kind of get to that spot to be okay with like not working with every client was the experience of working with so many crappy clients. Yeah. To, to realize like, not every opportunity, even if, if they do have a $25,000 budget, that that can be like super like, Oh my gosh, like this is going to be game changing for us. It’s going to be the best. And you get a client from hell and it’s like revision after revision and there are super nit-picky. And they’re calling you on your cell phone on a Friday night at 10:00 PM.

Ryan Koral (22m 32s):
Yeah. Literally like that’s happening. That’s the worst thing ever. And so I experienced enough of these people that just, they weren’t good people and they didn’t care about me. It was just more like they were going to do what they felt like they are spending enough money that they can tell me to do whatever they want it. And that if I didn’t do it, they would take me, they would threatened me with, we are going to take you to court. And I’m like, that’s not what I signed up for. Yeah. So I think that was enough of those experiences to say, okay, there, there, there is some kind of a methodology to, to figure out like who could be a good fit and who might not be in, in really trying to dig in there. Yeah.

Den Lennie (23m 10s):
Or do you do get to choose who you do business with? And I think, you know, as, as, as gentlemen of advancing years and having been in this industry for awhile, you know, what we have is, is a certain confidence from experience. And for us, for filmmakers who are at an earlier on in the journey, it can be challenging to see now because, and I think that freelance gene is so embedded in US where it’s like, you wanna hire me? Awesome. If someone wants to hire me great. Yes, yes, yes, no problem. No problem. Rather than hang on a second. Does this, does this business suit my values? And, and I had been talking a lot about this recently in my, in my community.

Den Lennie (23m 54s):
And it’s like, if, if you work with the values aligned Business, yes you do. We need to worry about anything. ’cause if your values are aligned and if you push your marketing and your story and your messaging around the value and finding the values, aligned to clients and prospects, and you’ll be, you’ll never have any problems. And when you do have problems, it’ll be dealt with quietly and efficiently and, and you don’t need to worry about the money. This has been one of my biggest realizations and the last will be 24 months, is that I’ve just gotten rid of non fit clients. I’ve gotten quite as a serious amount of obstacles to come in to my business.

Den Lennie (24m 37s):
You know, my own program. You can’t just buy it. You know, you have to jump through three or four hoops because they want people who are committed, who are responsive and who take action and take responsibility. And as a result of doing that, I’ve got just a much better opportunities, less opportunities. So I’m not spending as much time working. I mean, I probably work three days a week and, and it was all because of the values alignment. And I see that with my clients is that the ones that are aligned to value based propositions have, have excellent lives. You know, they spend the same with their families. They finish early on a Friday. And that, that strikes me as something that you and we never discussed this, but that’s takes me as someone that you, you basically just live as well.

Ryan Koral (25m 24s):
Yeah. I mean, a hundred percent a, I think I had this conversation not too long ago with someone else, where were we talking about values? And then the part of this that people will probably listening in and saying like, Oh man, yeah, that sounds great. Like, of course, like that’s what we want to work with are people who are aligned with my values, that the homework is to say, okay, well, what are your values? Like what are the things that you really truly care about? And what are the things that you’re not willing to sacrifice in? You know, write that stuff out and be very clear and specific. This is like, when I, when I was a dating before I was married, somebody who said, listen, you need to like, you, you need to have a good idea of like the kind of person that you want to marry.

Ryan Koral (26m 6s):
Right. Don’t just marry some chick. Cause she’s smoking hot and whatever, like a character, you know, think of, think of other things besides smoking hot, like that can be one of them. And so that’s similar to how, you know, I, we, I wanna work with clients that fit these things, but the homework you got to do their homework of saying like, okay, what does, what does that person look at? W what do I wanna look like? What do I want my business, my life? You know, what are the things that I truly care about? And then transferring that stuff forward to say, I’m like, okay, well, I can expect more out of my clients. And I expect out of my self, right? So maybe I need to raise the standards for myself, but then, but then use that as the template for like, these are the kind of clients that you be going after and win when you’re hiring employees at the same thing, the same thing applies there.

Ryan Koral (26m 52s):
And it just makes it super easy to hire people. And it makes it really easy to let people go in. It’s not like, this is like, Hey, you’re out of here cause your a turd, but its like, Hey, something’s wrong? Something’s missing. Something’s not aligned in it. It comes down to like this core value that we have, like what’s going on? Like is there something that can do to support you to get that value back to a spot where it is aligned with, with the mission of this company and the values that I hold. And if there’s anything that I can do, then it probably makes sense for you to move on right now. I’m going to support you in that. If, if Here is not the best spot for you, you’re not at, you’re not able to live out the core values then like lets get you to a place where you are able to live out your own core values in that approach.

Ryan Koral (27m 38s):
And that process has made hiring and firing. So stinking easy and the, and not painful like it used to be, it’s it still sad when it’s, you know, time to do that. But it’s more like, you know, you get more head nodding, you know, like up and down from the person that you’re having to let go cause they get it right.

Den Lennie (27m 55s):
Yeah, exactly. And, and it is its all about culture, you know, culture within your organization. And I think for, for a video production company, it’s about being clear as you see it on that culture and, and it’s confronting, it’s confronting to sit down and write down what you actually want from your business in life. And I’m a member of Eben pagan at about 2017, 2008, I studied one of his programs and he was like, Hey, do a vision board and write down what you want. And that was terrifying. But following that, I subsequently did it and it’s now become an integral part of my life because everything I’ve ever put in a vision board becomes a reality. And the more you write it down in your values and what you want, the more you attract to it.

Den Lennie (28m 37s):
And just to, before we wrap up one of the things that I’ve become very clear on as well, and I’d love to get your thoughts on this is when someone isn’t values aligned or there is a bad fit or cultural, there is a cultural disruption and the relationship and in the past, I’ve kind of let it go and try to kind of nurture it back to health that hasn’t worked, that Noah have a very firm it’s like that phrase to hire slow fire fast. What made sense? The problem I am I’m verging on brutal. No with my decision making, because it, it can be culturally disruptive to have a bad influence in your training program in your business.

Den Lennie (29m 18s):
And I know literally get rid of it very, very quickly. Final thoughts on, on the idea of doing that during the difficult jobs as a, as a business owner, when, when things aren’t going well.

Ryan Koral (29m 30s):
Yeah man, that’s, I mean, you nailed nailed it right there. Like that. I I’m thinking of the first person set and well, 15 years ago that I was like, this person I need to fire this person. Like they were poison to the culture I had, I think I had five employees at the time and there were two other employees that this person was infecting. Like half of my staff was being in, in. And so these other to like finally got around to getting rid of that person, but because I didn’t know how to do it because I was nervous. Cause I I’m super optimistic, hoping that the person changes and putting off the firing for way too long.

Ryan Koral (30m 12s):
I mean that impacted. And then that, then it happened fast forward, like for three or four years after that. And it happened again and I, it was like the same. I was like, ah, man, I don’t know. But as soon as I, I, I didn’t, we have some core values, but I didn’t understand the importance of hiring firing by those. But as soon as we adopted those in, in change our process for, for hiring, firing based around those, it was super easy to confront as soon as I got a sense that something is off here. So let me just ask this employee. He was our three core values radium, you know, what’s your strongest one. What’s your weakest one. Okay. We just want, it is probably the same one that I think is their weakest one. So let’s talk about that and let’s figure out how to get you back up to like that being a strong one in that doesn’t mean that conversation doesn’t need to be delayed.

Ryan Koral (31m 0s):
That’s a way we can talk about this because its all about supporting you and giving you what’s best in what might be best might actually not be here and being open and honest about that from the very beginning when I hire people, I tell them here’s how I hired people. Here’s how I fired people. This is the process. This is what we’ll do, you know, a 30 day a performance improvement plan. Like if, if they’re is kind of a struggle and we all go through hard times and like, and that’s fine, like totally get it. I want to support you. Which might mean that you’re not here in it and that’s okay for us. And that’s okay for you if people are like, yeah, that makes the most sense. So knowing what your core values are not being afraid to address those and those concerns immediately when you start getting a sense of like, I’m just asking in some and they might say, you know what?

Ryan Koral (31m 45s):
I know somebody passed away or you know, I’ve been dealing with depression or like whatever the thing is. And it’s like, Oh man, like, well let’s let me see, how can I get you support? Like what, what can I do? Do you mean you just need some time off? Like what are, what are the things? And if there are things that you can actually do, then do them and support and create a time to say like, okay, in 30 days, like these are the benchmarks, these are the measurable things. And we’re going to talk about those in 30 days. And at that point you can decide and typically people will self-select and just kind of get to a spot where I’m like, you know what, it’s just not a good fit anymore. And then just like sweet. That was the easiest firing I ever had to do.

Den Lennie (32m 21s):
I know, I love that on that bombshell Ryan Koral thank you very much.

Ryan Koral (32m 24s):
Absolutely Den and I love what you’re doing, man. Appreciate ya. Thanks for, thanks for having me on.

Den Lennie (32m 29s):
You’ve been listening to the How to Scale a Video business podcast with me, your host, Den Lennie. If you’re a Video business owner, it hits a ceiling. We benefit from mentorship, support and coaching and check out how you can work with over at denlennie.com. Don’t forget to subscribe and rate the show or over on iTunes. And we really appreciate your taking a few minutes to leave review and don’t forget to share if you feel you’ve gotten value from this episode that you think that would be useful for other filmmakers, you know, and please do me a massive favor and share it on social media and in groups that you might be at. So thanks for listening. See you in the next episode.